She really is as young as she sounds. He can't help but smile.

"He killed a few bad people. But murder is murder, it doesn't matter whether they were good or bad. The DA's office was pushing to give him the death penalty." Matt licks his lips and lowers his head. The trial felt like it was so long ago now. "We wanted to help him. I wanted to help him. And Karen, too. But he... wasn't in a space to be helped. I believe in the law, and I believe we did try to help him. But we can only help people who want to help themselves."

Right now Matthew doesn't want to be helped, despite how much he might need it. Which is perhaps contributing to the problem.